Andy Cohen on Real Housewives Allegations, Watch What Happens Live

It’s a frigid Sunday afternoon in April, and Andy Cohen is perched on a park bench, ruminating about the ups and downs — but mostly the ups — of his nearly 3-decade-long career in broadcasting. Occasionally, a passerby walks past and smiles, or shyly waves hello. This, it quickly becomes apparent, is a common occurrence for Cohen, 57, who seems to be something of the unofficial mayor of this cobblestoned, townhouse-lined neighborhood in downtown Manhattan, where he — and now his two children, Benjamin, 5, and Lucy, 2 — has been living for 27 years. Everybody, it seems, loves Andy Cohen. Well, not everyone, but we’ll get to that in a moment. He started his career in New York in his early 20s, a precocious, fiercely ambitious network executive with not-so-secret dreams of making it big in front of the camera as a TV host (despite being told by a mentor that he had “no charisma”). Today, he’s not only producer of one of the most successful reality franchises in television history (the one with all the Housewives), but he’s spent 15 years as host of Bravo’s much-buzzed-about late night talk show Watch What Happens Live With Andy Cohen, on which everyone from Hillary Clinton to Mariah Carey has answered his jaw-droppingly blunt questions. He oversees two unruly radio channels on SiriusXM — and hosts two shows himself. He has written three best-selling books (about himself, naturally), and every New Year’s Eve he entertains millions of CNN viewers worldwide by getting wasted on camera with his pal Anderson Cooper.

It’s been a remarkable ascent for the fast-talking Jewish gay kid from St. Louis who turned out to have a lot more charisma than his former boss could see. And that rise has surprised — and delighted — nobody more than Cohen himself, who makes no bones about how much he adores being famous. Like a certain other Andy, he has a Warholian fascination with celebrity, especially his own, even if it does sometimes make his dating life a tad complicated (he once got kicked off Grindr for “impersonating” Andy Cohen).

Lately, though, Cohen has been dealing with something he’s previously only had the good fortune to poke fun at: scandal. 

There’s been a harassment lawsuit filed by two of his former Housewives stars alleging sexism on the set, among other charges. There have been accusations of drug use as well as alcohol abuse and even instances of on-set racism. 

Cohen is constrained by his lawyers from delving too deeply into the details of these allegations, though you get the feeling from his sometimes uncharacteristically taciturn demeanor that it’s a subject he’d rather not discuss anyway. Still, he sits on this park bench for a couple of hours on this April afternoon and, for the first time, answers questions about the accusations as well as some about his dating life, his decision to have kids and what it means to be the only (openly) gay man on late night TV.

You’ve been producing Real Housewives for 18 years now. In that time, a lot has changed in the culture at large. How have you adapted and what has been the biggest challenge?

Producing a show about politically incorrect women in 2024 is different than producing a show about politically incorrect women in 2009. In 2009, when one of the kids called his brother a fag, we left it in the show and then discussed it at the reunion episode. That was how two brothers talked to each other in 2009, and we saw it as a teaching moment. In 2024, you would immediately bleep that word, and it would trigger a whole furor. Today, someone on the show would probably say, “You can’t say that word anymore.” And then the viewers would go wild on Twitter. Sensitivities have changed over the years. Social media has a huge impact. There’s not a lot of room for nuance these days. We are living in an outrage culture now, and everyone has had to adapt to that. 

Some critics have complained that you and Bravo have been slow to adapt in some ways. Eboni Williams, the first Black New York Housewife, says she encountered pervasive racism on the show.

I can’t speak to her particular experience, and I’m no longer in charge of programming decisions there, but I’m proud of all the work that Bravo has put into making their shows more representative of the country’s demographics. George Floyd was an important cultural shift that forced us to look at all of our programming. Bravo made it a mandate to diversify its shows. I mean, they had a show, Summer House, that was like a bunch of white people in the Hamptons. Southern Charm was a bunch of white people tomcatting in Charleston. They thought, “Why are a lot of the shows so segregated?” They decided that there needed to be more representation across the dial. And they did it. 

Brandi Glanville and Caroline Manzo have both complained about sexual harassment. And Leah McSweeney told Vanity Fair that ratings-mad producers hid liquor bottles on the set and sabotaged her sobriety. Are these isolated complaints or symptoms of a larger problem?

Unfortunately, I can’t talk about some of these things. What I’ll say about the alcohol is that we have so many sober people and people who have gotten sober on the show, like Countess Luann [de Lesseps]. We have people who’ve never had a drink during the entire run of the show. Jill Zarin. Kandi Burris. Heather Dubrow will just have an occasional glass of champagne. So sure, there are people who drink. There are many people who never drink. We don’t force anyone to do anything. But no one is secretly hiding liquor bottles on set. That’s ridiculous. We’ve been very supportive of people’s sobriety. 

But Bravo wouldn’t be the first network to use liquor to gin up some drama. 

We don’t need to gin up drama! Have you seen Ramona Singer on a random Tuesday at 1 p.m.? Have you ever run into Lisa Rinna at noon? Lisa Rinna does not need a glass of rosé in order to tell you exactly how she is feeling. Margaret Josephs only drinks Diet Coke, and she is a truth cannon wherever she goes. I don’t think Teresa Giudice would say that it was the red wine that caused her to flip that table! We start filming the reunions at 6 a.m. for God’s sake!

There are now calls for reality stars to be unionized, with your old friend Bethenny Frankel leading the charge. The Housewives have made Bravo millions by opening up their lives to the cameras. Shouldn’t they be paid as much as actors?

I have a lot to say about that. But I need to make clear that I’m speaking as an independent producer. This is not Bravo speaking. This is my take on it. If you look at shows like American Idol, Survivor, The Bachelor or the Below Deck people, 90 percent or more of the reality stars on them are on for one season or less. Also, acting is a full-time profession. You don’t go to school to be a reality star. Reality stars typically have other jobs. They’re bar owners, they’re designers. They’re doctors. I think the way that Bravo pays people is that it’s a buyout — they’re buying them out for a show that can be distributed in certain ways, and the longer you stay on, the higher your salary gets. And salaries for people who have been on a long time are really high. Look, you’re not drafted into the Real Housewives. You either want to be on the show or not, and you either see it as having some greater benefit for you or not. You have a business you’re trying to launch, you have a music career you’re trying to launch, you want exposure. And so you say, “OK, I’m going to look at this for the long game and maybe parlay my exposure on the show into other lucrative opportunities.” And many of them do just that.

You had close ties to some of your critics. Bravo helped make Bethenny a multimillionaire. Have you felt hurt by some of the criticism you’ve received? Do you have any regrets about how you handled anything?

You know, I am a nostalgic person. I’m someone who appreciates everyone being on the same ride. I’m incredibly proud of the close relationships I’ve built in my 20 years at the network. I’m super proud of what we’ve built and of everybody who’s been a part of it. I think most people involved with these shows have been very grateful for the platform, but there will always be a few with complaints. Obviously, it’s no fun to be a target. So, yes, it’s hurtful. But I have no regrets about the way I’ve handled anything. I think everything that happens in your life informs the next thing that happens in your life. That’s the way I look at all this. I know what the truth is and I know how I’ve conducted myself, and I walk tall every day on that. There are legions of fans who are passionately devoted to this brand. It’s a tonic that helps them get through the pains and obstacles in their lives. When I got onstage at BravoCon, I was just blown away — 35,000 screaming people who came in from all across the globe. It was an intense experience that helped me put all this in perspective.

Given BravoCon’s success, many people were surprised that you decided to skip it this year. Why is that?

Pulling that together is a massive undertaking — we had 150 or 160 Bravo stars there last year, plus 30,000 people and hundreds of moderators and press. And then we did five episodes of Watch What Happens Live in front of 2,000 people — it was just a tremendous amount of effort. And when it ended, I remember saying to [NBCU chairman] Frances Berwick, maybe we should skip next year or do it in a year and a half. It will be more special that way. Also the space we wanted was only available nine months after we had already done it. And that seemed way too soon. But ultimately it was a Bravo decision, not mine. And the decision, by the way, was made eight months ago. They just announced it a couple of weeks ago, and people tied it into what’s been happening. But it had absolutely nothing to do with that. 

So, aside from the recent controversies, has it all turned out as you thought it would when starting out? Is this what you expected your life to be?

No. I couldn’t have ever predicted this. It’s been a really strange journey. I mean, I love TV, and I’ve wanted to be on the air since I was a kid. My first job was a desk assistant in 1990 at the Morning Show in St. Louis. I was desperate to make it on the air, but I just looked so wrong. 

Is it true you were advised not to pursue a career in front of the camera?

Yes, one of my first mentors told me, “You’re wall-eyed, and you don’t have charisma.” After college in Boston, I came to New York. But I realized there was no way I could land an on-air job here. So I took a job as a producer at CBS News. I became successful behind the camera pretty quickly — I was the youngest producer at CBS News, doing major segments for the morning show and 48 Hours. By then, I had mostly given up trying to be in front of the camera. But I’d still try out to become a VJ or something like that.

You would have dumped your CBS career to become a VJ?

Oh my God, in a second! Remember MTV at the time? John Norris? Kennedy? VJs were superstars back then!

In 2000, Barry Diller snatched you away from CBS to work as head of programming at Trio. Why did he hire you?

Barry and I had been friendly. He saw I went out every night and thought I had a good eye for what was going on. Trio was going to be a new arts channel, and Diller wanted it to be very high and low — he saw that I had a high and low sensibility. I think the most successful thing we launched there was a documentary show called Brilliant But Canceled. And then Trio itself wound up becoming brilliant but canceled. It was folded into USA TV and then into Universal when Universal and NBC merged. And I ended up at Bravo a couple years later. 

Queer Eye put Bravo on the map, but Real Housewives took it to a new level. How did that show happen? 

It all started when this ad guy named Scott Dunlop brought us this video of his neighbors in Orange County. At the time, Desperate Housewives was a huge hit on ABC; his big idea was to bring Desperate Housewives to life. And there was no better place for it than Orange County. The women were bored and rich. Their hair was big and blond, their boobs were bigger. One woman, Vicki [Gunvalson], even had a grotto in her backyard. But Scott’s idea was maybe a little less grounded in reality. We wanted it to be a docuseries about these women and their friendships.

At what point did you know it would be a huge success?

It took a while, actually. We almost pulled the plug on the first season. The production team we hired would rave about all the great scenes they were getting on tape, and when we watched them, it was just … underwhelming. I remember a meeting where we talked about if we wound up killing the Real Housewives, what would the loss be? By that time, we were $400,000 in, so we decided to just push forward.

What’s the show’s secret?

People really like judging other people. It’s that simple. There’s a moral aspect to this — you see people behaving well or behaving badly. People like to sit in judgment and watch people get their reward or comeuppance. I also think there’s a democratic aspect to this — it’s kind of Warholian. You can come from anywhere and get your 15 minutes. You don’t need a particular talent to be a star. I love Howard Stern and his wack pack, and I think of these Housewives as my personal wack pack. Even at the show’s cringiest moments, it’s hard to avert your eyes.

Real Housewives might be the gayest show on mainstream TV. Is that how you always envisioned it?

There’s definitely an arched, raised eyebrow element to the show that is very gay. And there’s also a lot of gays who work there! Bravo is a network for women and gay men, mostly run by women and gay men, and we each bring different perspectives to the table. Gays love our divas. We celebrate strong women. I think the women on our shows are superstars. Also, gay men appreciate women of all ages, especially women over 45. At Housewives, unlike many other places, age is no barrier to being a superstar. But women producers bring their own unique sensibilities and storylines. I think it’s really a feminist show because it can be about women finding their voice or finding their power or discovering their sexuality.

A feminist show? Really?

I’ve actually debated Gloria Steinem about that on Watch What Happens Live. She called Housewives a minstrel show for women! I know that some feminist critics say it’s just a gay male conception of women, but you know what? They’re wrong! If you look at Luann and Sonja [Morgan] and even Ramona [Singer], you saw them getting divorced, and they wound up really finding themselves as sexual beings. Others go through traumas and find great empowerment. I love Gloria Steinem, but I don’t get the sense she’s watched a lot of Housewives, you know? 

You must have overseen hundreds of Housewives at this point. Which of them epitomize the show’s ideal?

Porsha [Williams] in Atlanta is a good example. She’s funny. She is open. She is someone that you root for. She’s vulnerable, she’s been on top, she’s been on the bottom. So, she kind of has everything, and you go along for the ride with her. Brynn [Whitfield] on the New York Housewives could wind up being that too. Tamara [Judge] on O.C. Kyle Richards is another great example. 

Bette Midler recently joked that she was auditioning to become a Beverly Hills Housewife. Are there celebrities you’ve really wanted to cast?

Tori Spelling has made a lot of noise about wanting to be on the show. She’d definitely bring great drama, but we’ve never really had a serious conversation about her for some reason. I actually have mixed feelings about having stars on the show. When Lisa Rinna was trying out for season one of Beverly Hills, I was very much against the idea. Like, she’s already a celebrity! But then she came, and it made perfect sense. 

Are there any secret Bravo fans who’ve surprised you?

Steven Soderbergh, Julia Roberts. Jonah Hill writes me fan notes from time to time. Jennifer Lawrence. When we went to the White House Correspondents’ Dinner, we were mobbed. I love that everybody at SNL loves it. One of the great things I’ve gotten to do in my career was play myself in SNL’s “Housewives Reunion Show.” Every great female SNL star was in that sketch. That was a decade ago, and I remember thinking, “Oh my God, this is too soon for this to happen. I’m never going to do anything better!” 

A lot of people were surprised when you gave up your job as a Bravo executive to host Watch What Happens Live. Few people have made that kind of leap. Was it a difficult adjustment?

It all happened slowly. Initially I was doing an online show on Bravo.tv after Top Chef, and it was really fun. And it just developed over time. At the beginning, I got paid $50 or $100 an episode. But gradually the show built an audience, and they decided to take it live. I remember my first televised episode. It was live at midnight, and I was not nervous. And I remember going into the bathroom and I was like, “Dude, why aren’t you nervous?” But I felt like I’d been training for it for many years. But a few years into it, that changed. I’m a very confident person. I usually believe in every decision I make — I’m always moving forward. But I was like, “Who do you think you are? You’re not a comedian, why do you think you can host this show?” It was partially criticism I was getting from people online. 

You’ve booked a ton of big stars on that show. Are there any you just can’t land?

Madonna, of course, though I’ve given up on her at this point. Maybe she’ll come around someday. At a concert recently, she called me a “troublemaking queen” because people have slagged her on my show. So I texted her a five-minute montage of me saying positive shit about her, so perhaps she got the message. But I am a troublemaking queen! I own that! Publicists consider me a dangerous stop on their clients’ press tour because I could ask anything. And I do. But some people find that exciting. That’s maybe why Mariah Carey’s been back a bunch, or J.Lo, or people who want to make headlines. They know I’m going to go there.

Were there guests who didn’t enjoy going there?

Debra Winger is one. I asked her to rank onscreen kisses from best to worst. And she was like, “I don’t remember. Those kisses were 20 years ago.” I said, “If I kissed Robert Redford 20 years ago, I would remember what he looked like, what he smelled like and what he tasted like.” But she didn’t play. Afterward, I heard she wasn’t too thrilled with the experience. But Oprah and Dolly Parton are game. Hillary Clinton’s been back three times and loves it. I asked her, “Who’s the biggest douchebag in the Senate?” She immediately said, “Ted Cruz.”

The country has grown much more polarized since you started out on Bravo. Has that impacted your shows?

We try to steer clear of politics because people hate that. They come to us for an escape. We have Housewives in red states and blue states. And a lot of blue-state fans get really riled up over Housewives who are Trump supporters. But you know, get over it, this is America. I’m more concerned for myself on the radio show because some days I go in and my passionate dislike of Donald Trump can overtake me. But people aren’t coming to hear my thoughts on politics. Frankly, the way that I use my platform the most is as a gay American and a gay dad. When I speak about politics, it is through that lens. I think that’s really important because I’m the only gay person in late night television.

Yes. Howard Stern calls you America’s “Top Gay.”

And I don’t take that lightly. When he inducted me into the Hollywood Walk of Fame, John Mayer said that I unwittingly have become a gay best friend to people who never had a gay best friend. That really moved me. There’s a lot of moms who have come up to me at book signings and say, “I watched your show for years with my son, who then wound up coming out of the closet, and having you meant a lot to us.” 

Your friendship with Mayer has been a subject of intense speculation. People seem dubious that a straight rock star can have a close platonic relationship with a gay TV personality.

Let them speculate! I honestly love John Mayer, and he loves me. But because we’re so affectionate toward each other, people don’t know what box to put that in. They assume we’re sleeping with each other, which we are most definitely not. 

Your friendship with Anderson Cooper also is fascinating because you seem so different. On TV, he seems alternately shocked and amused by you. Is he also like that in private?

Do you remember the old Highlights magazine? We are like Goofus and Gallant. I’m Goofus and he’s Gallant, obviously. I think he’s often mystified by the dramas I find myself in. He’ll call me and say, “What the hell are you doing?” But we actually have a lot in common. He’s someone I always go to for advice, and he’s always on the mark.

You’re also tight with Sarah Jessica Parker, Kelly Ripa and Jimmy Fallon. Do you know any non-celebrities?

Of course! I went to Seder the other night with my oldest friends, girls I grew up with. One, whom I met in seventh grade, is Ben’s godmother. And the other I met when I was studying abroad in London — she was the first person I ever came out to. And there’s my college roommate, Dave — those are the people I hang with. 

You once said that you’ve been preparing to be famous since you were 7. Has it been as fulfilling as you imagined?

Anderson always says that no one enjoys being famous more than I do. I view it as a gift. I walk my dog three or four times a day in New York City and people are like, “Hey, Andy!” How great is that? I live in this big city and everyone calls my name and says hello. I have a personal relationship with my audience. They feel like they know me because they do know me. How I am on TV and on the radio is pretty much the same as I am in person. But there’s a part of me that still can’t believe that I can get reservations at fancy restaurants. I can’t believe I get into the Met Ball! 

You’re single, right? How do you meet people when you’re a celebrity?

I’m on all the apps! I’m on Grindr, Tinder, Scruff, Hinge, Raya …

How’s that working out for you?

Well, I got kicked off Grindr once because somebody reported me for impersonating myself. People are like, “Nice try. Why are you sending me Andy Cohen’s pictures?” But once in a while it will work out. 

Do you worry that people want to hook up with you because you’re famous?

The people that I tend to swipe on Hinge and Tinder aren’t usually big Bravo fans. They’re just random guys. I mean, if someone’s got a Housewives tagline in their profile, chances are I’m going to swipe left! (Laughs.) But being famous isn’t what makes dating weird to me — it’s being a single dad. A guy I was dating said one night, “There’s an elephant in the room here.” And I thought he meant that I have two kids. But he said, “No, it’s that you’re famous.” And I thought, “Wow, that’s something I never think about!” 

What made you decide to become a single dad?

I always knew that I wanted to be a parent. I knew I’d be good at it. But when I first came to New York, I became hypnotized by the city and the media and celebrity and all that entailed. And I love all that. I love media, I love New York. I love celebrity. I had an incredible time. I was on yachts and going to parties in the Hamptons with Barry and all that stuff. But after a while, I started to think to myself, “Is this what I’m going to do for the rest of my life? Is this all there is for me?” Eventually the holidays started becoming lonely. I’d go home to St. Louis for Thanksgiving, and a lot of my high school friends weren’t there anymore or they had a boatload of kids. So I started to wonder where I fit in. I mean, I love the party, but I don’t want to be the last guy at the party. Then when I turned 49, I had a boyfriend who was 20 years younger who did not want kids and didn’t want to get married. And I was like, OK, I’ve got to move on. If I’m going to have kids, it has to happen now. 

Do you ever think about retiring or doing something else? You’ve said that you get tired of hearing yourself talk. 

I’m getting tired of myself. I’m not getting tired of Bravo or of Watch What Happens Live. It’s still so fun for me. Every fucking show is fun for a different reason. Last night I had Jennifer Tilly, we got into this conversation about her meeting King Charles, and she’s like, “I could tell he was totally into me.” I’m like, “How could you tell?” She says, “He was checking me out.”

You’ve become such an embodiment of the network that it’s hard to think of you apart from it. What’s Bravo without Andy Cohen ? What’s Andy Cohen without Bravo?

You’ll have to ask Bravo about the first part. Hopefully they’ll keep employing me for a while because I like it there. But you know, everyone is ultimately replaceable. I love doing the shows, but if it all went away tomorrow for some reason, I’ll be fine. I can write books, I have a successful radio career at Sirius. There are lots of things that I can do. And now that I have a family, I know now that I’ll never be alone

This story first appeared in the May 8 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. Click here to subscribe.